Editorial: Too much medication »
Posted By Spadecaller 1 year, 8 months ago in StyleIt should not have taken the tragic death of 4-year-old Rebecca Riley, allegedly from an overdose of psychotropic drugs, to set off an intense discussion among doctors, parents, social workers, and others about the way society treats children who show signs of possible mental disorder.
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jordan111 year, 8 months ago
I did not know toddlers could even be diagnosed with mental illnesses yet/that young. That poor girl!>>>>>
Diagnosing 'mental disorders' is NOT an exact science. That's what makes it dangerous sometimes. I worked with 'autistic' kids in a hospital setting, and the 'Psychiatrist' had intense psychotropics ordered for 'acting out behaviors.' We didn't give them. We dealt with their behaviors, won their trust, and their violent behaviors reduced as a result of our willingness to help them work through it, or to sometimes change what we did to precipitate the behavior. This should never have happened to that child. The Psychiatrist needs to be investigated.
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Changingconstant1 year, 8 months ago
It's even more distressing that people mis-label "bi-polar disorder as "bipolar".
Bi-polar disorder is a form of manic depression also known as rapid cycle manic depression.
Most of the cases today reported as "bipolar" are just normal mood shifts that people don't have the tools or patience to deal with.
Dealing with manic-depression often requires medication but slapping the misnomer bipolar just trivializes a serious condition and takes a not so significant problem to a medication level it may not need.
And it takes serious observation and psychological testing to diagnose any mental disease or conditions in children, much more so than adults, because kids have such limited experience for comparison and underdevolped mental and verbal skills.
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not2needy1 year, 8 months ago
So sad that care takers, including parents, would prefer to drug their children rather than deal with mental or behavorial issues. I can't judge because i have never been faced with anything like it, Thank God! However i would hope if i had, i would have handled it better and without drugs.
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FrankieT1 year, 8 months ago
Come on, man, blaming liberalism for everything?
This is a complex issue not a simple black and white one.
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PeterAP1 year, 7 months ago
This has absolutely nothing to do with liberalism....
This is about the medical establishment trying to fix everything with a pill. Psychiatrists are no longer trained to do therapy. Instead they charge $150 for a 15 minute appointment that is focused on medication management. It's about the pharmaceutical companies trying to maximize their take. These medications are not meant for someone so young.
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Spadecaller1 year, 8 months ago
My wife is a teacher and she has seen other teachers recommend to parents that they should ask their doctors to consider medication for their children. These are students that are giving the teacher difficulty in school.
Not all children who misbehave need to be medicated. The impression that my wife and I are getting is that there is a selfish desire to find a quick fix.
Perhaps we are using chemical straight jackets to control children, rather than addressing their real issues. Maybe this is the tragic result that led to Rebecca's death.
Are some caretakers so inconvenienced by unmanageable children that they rely too much on medication to contain the problem?
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uncle-dave1 year, 8 months ago
I agree with Spadecaller, we live in a society that wants quick fixes in every aspect of their lives. Whether it's a pill or fast food, they want immediate gratification, but it also points a finger at the greater society as a whole. With all of the modern conveniences that we have we don't have the time that is neccessary to address our family's needs. In most households both parents have to work, just to make ends meet, and corporate America frowns upon unreliable employees.
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Changingconstant1 year, 8 months ago
Some problems are caused by society as a whole with no regard for political alignments or sentiments. The fact that almost every story on here receives a statement about politics and attempts to lay blame is an example of one of those problems.
Start at the human level and not the political level and solve work toward solutions. Kids don't know if mommy and daddy voted Dem, Rep, Ind, or not at all, they do know if they get love and positive attention.
We should start a movement to better regulate psychotropic drug prescriptions like they do some pain meds: theraputic value vs. risk.
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PeterAP1 year, 7 months ago
We live in a violent society where the government feels the need to step in and regulate things such as spanking. There is way too much child abuse. But, there are also way too many parents who are more concerned with their own needs making them unable to deal with their child. Physical punishment must have limits and should be the absolute last option. Parents must take the time to learn appropriate ways to change behavior. It takes time, lots of time. So, if you are more concerned with your needs, don't have children.
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nativestorm1 year, 8 months ago
Doctors and counselors so often find it easier to medicate and therefore eradicate their problems whereas children are concerned.
I feel it is time to spend more time counseling and group counseling kids and spending less time on "coking them to the gills"
and Im doing fine after my surgery..thanks for everyones concern
Storm
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brothers1 year, 7 months ago
you have to sometimes wonder if Doctors and Counselors give their own children medications to quite their own down. You also have to blame the drug companies because they tell these doctors to dispense drug as if they were candy so that the drug company can make more money.
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Shankari251 year, 8 months ago
Spadecaller--I saw this too when I was a teacher. There are other ways of dealing with children who have ADD rather than dishing out medication.
I also know now that I am a psychology grad student, I also realize that our HMO's encourage a "quick fix". They want psychiatrists, psychologists, and mental health counselors to find a quick fix, and they are not willing to pay for long term counseling. The long term counselling would bypass the tremendous amounts of medication that is dished out.
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ssp10101 year, 8 months ago
As an ex-teacher, I say good points, Spadecaller. Not all children are hyperactive and needing meds that are diagnosed hyperactive.
Most all 3 year olds are hyper, I think! That's a normal state at that age. Then, there are toddlers that are not disciplined by parents, so that they don't learn to discipline themselves and have any kind of boundaries. They may seem to be hyperactive, when, in fact, they are simply undisciplined.
Psychiatrists should first try to have parents educated in parenting skills, so that they learn how to discipline children. After trying behavior management, then look into meds, but no before.
I also am wondering if the parents overmedicated her by giving her the med. to make her sleep to give them more "peace and quiet". Many adults/caretakers these days don't seem to be any better disciplined than their kids. How can a generation of undisciplined adults/caretakers teach their kids to be what they, themselves, aren't?
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Eagle_Eye1 year, 8 months ago
This confuses me: "Clonidine, a blood pressure medicine for adults, is also prescribed for children to make them less aggressive or go to sleep." WTH????
Why are they giving drugs that have nothing to do with the diagnosis to children? The tried and true pharmaceuticals for this childs disorder are about as old as me. This is clearly an issue with pharmaceutical companies promoting their drugs for other uses than what they are approved for. The blame all goes to the pharmaceutical companies telling Doctors that it can be used for these cases.
But it is also the case that the Doctor did not properly medicate with the right medication to help the child.
This is very sad for many children.
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unorthodoxic1 year, 8 months ago
The FDA only regulates off label prescriptions for a few drugs such as human growth hormone. Off lable use is when a consumer uses a drug in a way other than the one prescribed, off lable promotion is when a manufacturer advertises a drug for purposes other than those approved by the FDA. There are no laws against off label prescription. A physician may prescribe any medications whether on of off label. If a physician prescribes a medication erroneously, or outside of its approved uses, or in any way that does harm to a patient, that physician may be subject to civil suit. Of course, if it is done willfully, it is criminal. However it is criminal because of the intent to harm, not because it was a drug prescribed off label.
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not2needy1 year, 8 months ago
EE, wouldn't that be dangerous to the blood pressure of the child? Seems that would be a lethal medication for a child, unless said child had high blood pressure!
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Changingconstant1 year, 8 months ago
The can do what is called "off-label" usage for conditions or people who are unresponsive to traditional treatments.
There are a lot of seizure meds being used to treat mental disorders in those people who don't respond to "normal" treatments.
Some off-label uses are very valuable and just have not been offically approved due to the expense of running clinical studies.
It is however required that the prescribing Dr. has tried to treat the problem with approved methods to no result.
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Spadecaller1 year, 8 months ago
Eagle Eyes,
You're right. It is becoming more and more evident that parents have to become their children's advocates and not to leave the decisions in the hands of their doctors or their teachers. Seeking help is fine, but ultimately the final decision should be carefully researched.
This same theme of individual responsibility for learning about medications and medical treatment has become of paramount importance. Our current system has undermined the trust that we once could have in our physicians.
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Amazing11 year, 8 months ago
In some instances, that is just what is needed. But don't get caught. You see it all the time in the animal world. Mama cat rolls around with the kittens, everyone's having fun and then one of the young'uns goes too far. Mama goes Fa-Whappa. Kitten is chastened and 5 minutes later, Mama is grooming the baby to let it know it's still loved.
The line is thin here. Be careful.
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not2needy1 year, 8 months ago
Doesn't the Bible say "spare the rod, spoil the child"?
That doesn't mean beat children with a coat hanger or burn them with cigarettes, but a sound spanking works wonders, also lets the child know there are boundaries that shouldn't be crossed for lots of reasons. Socially acceptable reasons as well as safety issues.
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PeterAP1 year, 7 months ago
Well, as one of those "modern day liberal psychologists", I would hope you would think about context in these arguments. Has society overcorrected itself to where an APPROPRIATE swat on the butt is looked at as child abuse? Yes it has. If a child wants to dart across the street, of course you have to physically restrain him. But, if a child is crying in the grocery store, should you smack him across the face? I think most everyone would say that is not the appropriate response in that context.
A child is not an animal that you train to follow commands. As a child grows, it can be reasoned with. If you do not have to resort to use the rod, is the child missing out? Of course not. I have done parent training with many parents over the years. Overwhelmingly, I have found that the child is not the problem, it is the parents. Parents who are too impatient or too arrogant to see a better way.
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Shankari251 year, 8 months ago
Violence begets violence. Baby sees momma can't control herself, and uses violence to solve problems. Do you want them to see you as in control or an out of control angry, violent person?
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ssp10101 year, 7 months ago
Absolutely, but today, we have some misdirected ideas that we will hurt their psyches, when, in fact, it has the opposite effect. I think they realize they are loved because boundaries are set and enforced. With spankings, too, as a grandparent, I found with my now grown children, that, if you give them swats on their hand or behind when they are five and under, you don't have to keep doing it. They learn quickly and learn that Mom or Dad means what they say. It saves wear and tear on the nerves and emotions later on, especially as teenagers.
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Amazing11 year, 8 months ago
There are many approaches that can be taken before resorting to drugs.
First, the diet. We are bombarded with so many chemicals in food processing that it is no wonder that the youngest and most vulnerable may in reality be reacting some weird chemical in their food. My rule of thumb, when I read the ingredients label and can't pronounce it, I don't eat it.
Second, the family dynamic. What's going on? Will counseling help? Is there an organic problem here. Run all the tests, find out what is really going on.
Third: What about herbs. There are many that are efficacious in treating nervous disorders and they are usually way less potentially harmful.
Fourth: Chiropractic. I worked for a while with a chiropractor and saw a few kids come in with real problems with ADD and ADHD and within a couple of weeks they would be completely changed around.
And then there are other modalities too numerous to mention.
But I would try all of these before giving adult drugs to my kid.
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PinkyPie1 year, 8 months ago
I'd like to add my experience here. When my oldest son was about 7 his Montessori teacher approched me and told me that he was having problems settling down, doing his work, etc. Typical 'signs' of ADD. She advised me to take him to a Developmental Optometrist and have him evaluated because her son had the same problems at the same age.
There were only 2 specialists in this in the Phoenix area at that time. It was determined through some simple tests that he had vision problems...convergence, where the eyes don't track at the same time and some other issues that, if not addressed, could have become a big problem. After about 6 months of vision therapy once or twice a week in the office, and me supervising simple eye excercises at home, in addition to his wearing glasses during this time, the problem was solved! He only had to wear the glasses for about 6 months additional time and has perfect vision now...con't
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Changingconstant1 year, 8 months ago
I think that exercise is another key component. Children need to exercise off the extra energy they naturally posess. I remember being "locked-out" to play. (the old don't come in until I call you for dinner, not sit on the porch in rain kind)
We would come in and be able to sit through dinner without fidgeting and back talk for sure.
Video games simulate activity and the Wii has actually made it possible to "run, bowl, play tennis etc.." while never leaving the house.
And let's not forget the lack of positive examples from personal relationships in the home. How can kids learn to act responsibly with others when the adults in the house are busy, fighting, and/or seperated?
It's possible to raise a child in a one parent household. Many have been raised as such and come out fine but that doesn't necessarily mean it's a good thing. My folks were divorced and I underestimated the importance of that interpersonal relationship until I had kids.
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natashas1 year, 8 months ago
These pharmacies are so quick to sell these drugs and make their money. Doctors have been to school long enough to now how much of somthing is suitable for children. I have met children who without their medication are extremely violent. I am sure alot of other children who are on medication do not need to be. Considering the tragic events that have led to even one childs dealth, I believe extra laws should be in place restricting these medications from being used for something other then required to fit the appropriate use.
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Spadecaller1 year, 8 months ago
When I go to my primary care physician I don't just wait for the other patients ahead of me, I wait for the army of pharmaceutical reps coming in an out all day long.
They never used to see the doctors during the day when the physicians saw patients. Has anyone else noticed that same thing?
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rlgnmksustpd1 year, 8 months ago
How many here are old enough to remember when doctors actually tried to figure out WHY you were sick? Nowadays, they whip out the Rx pad, and scribble down something to mask your symptoms. Of course, then you need something else to counteract the side effects of the first drug. I am so sick of drug commercials on TV - half the time they don't even tell you what the drugs for, its just "feel bad? ask your doctor for our drug" Even worse, now the tagline is "Can't afford prescriptions? We can help" or "Call for free sample". Last week, CBS showed whose paying their bills by running a series against health supplements/vitamins. Their "authority" author was so lame and unbelievable, it became a obvious and blatant promotion for pharmaceutical drugs.
I know an eight year old boy whose been diagnosed with all sorts of mental disorders and drugged accordingly, but real reason he acts out is because his parents are too busy to listen to him.
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PinkyPie1 year, 8 months ago
These drug reps are exactly the same as lobbyists in Washington....
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legaleagle521 year, 8 months ago
These "legal" drug pushers are the front men for the evil empires known as Merck, Bristol Meyers and others. Remember Thimersol in the vaccines and Viox that led to heart attacks. What a cruising job!The salesmen make a lot of money and give the doctors free samples to give to them and their patients. Sound familiar. A wide variety of anti depressants, anti psychotics, anti siezure and sedative related medication are regularly dispensed to Alzheimer's patients in Nursing Homes. I have personal experience with this. My father was an Alzheimers patient in a Nursing Home and he was treated with over 20 of these medications, without consulting me. All of these "primitive pharmaceuticals" have side affects that might not show up for months or years. Oh, the doctors will tell you that they calm the patient down and make him or her more responsive,normal and relaxed but at what long term cost? I'm tired of hearing the medical professions rhetoric and whitewash.
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PeterAP1 year, 7 months ago
What makes them "evil" is that the pharm companies are dictating health care policy. They have worked to convince insurance companies that treatment consists of a pill. In turn, physicians are not given the appropriate time to dig into a patient's symptoms and come up with other potential explanations.
Mental illness is the perfect example. Treating depression with only a pill masks the problem. Stop the meds, the problem usually comes back. Treatment is about more than that.
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Eagle_Eye1 year, 8 months ago
Also notice how many of them are young females???? Most of them are also dressed in very expensive suits.
My Doc. won't deal with them, sends them to his PA to see. He does get as many free samples as possible and gives them away to patients that can't afford them. Great Doctor I have, I love him, he saved my life!
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Formidable1 year, 8 months ago
I urge parents to seek a second opinion regardless of the fact that they will have to pay for it. With the Doctors getting less money per patient through negotiations with the HMO they make it up in volume. In my humble opinion, a child is unable to provide sufficient feed back in an office visit to warrant medicating them with anything that has such severe side effects. My son attempted suicide twice until we found the root cause to be high doses of Accutane. The doctor treated the symtom but not the patient. He suffered for some period of time due to the half life of the medication. I am happy to report he is doing well now. Parents beware, don't take shortcuts. Your kids are counting on you to put the effort in to insure their welfare.
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Changingconstant1 year, 8 months ago
A Merck Redbook is helpful too. Most pharmacists use that to check drug interactions instead of the PDR, and frankly I trust my PHARMACIST (of whom all are re do have to have a doctorate degree)and not a technician (who are not allowed to discuss drug effects legally) to know my Rx's and effects much more than my Dr.
Pharmacists are not swayed (or even approached) by drug reps and deal with Meds exclusively instead of meds AND diseases.
My Dr. prescribes and I check with the pharmacist to see what to expect and if it seems like an appropriate. If not I go back and/or call my Dr. to see what's up.
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MajJohn1 year, 7 months ago
Read the PDR all the time, don't forget to get a new copy every year or so. So many new drugs all the time. I also bought the AARP drug book.
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jordan111 year, 8 months ago
Rebecca was not even 3 years old when a psychiatrist diagnosed her with bipolar and attention deficit hyperactivity disorders and began prescribing medications>>>>
That poor little girl. Parents have GOT to knock off this nonsense with drugging their kids, or allowing the opinion of a DR or two to so seriously affect their little lives! My daughter was diagnosed with 'hyperactivity' around the age of three, and I dealt with it! It was HARD, and it lasted until she reached puberty, but it's who she was! Children learn differently. Don't be sucked in with an 'attention deficit disorder' diagnosis. A child might well be a little sponge, like my daughter was. It wasn't a 'deficit.' She was learning more than most kids her age, because she took things in more rapidly and moved on to the next thing. I'm not saying she fits all children that are diagnosed with it, but parents have GOT to stop giving so much control to others, and KNOW their children better.
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Spadecaller1 year, 8 months ago
Well said jordan!
It's a challenge for many parents who both work, but they have to get to know their own children better.
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Spadecaller1 year, 8 months ago
"the hearings will also question whether therapists sometimes diagnose mental health disorders in children who are actually victims of abuse, putting a focus on the responsibility of health professionals and the state Department of Social Services."
I sometimes wonder if young mothers and fathers shouldn't have to take a test to screen them for abuse. I'm not serious, but how many people give birth to children and have nothing from their own childhoods to model and therefore endanger their own children. The viscious circle ends up with medication, nowadays.
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PinkyPie1 year, 8 months ago
Spade,
I understand what you're trying to say here. There has never been an owners manual accompanying the birth of a child and so many are unequipped to even take care of themselves, let alone an infant. I think the breakdown of the family unit is at least partially to blame. In a generation or two past there were grandparents deeply involved in the family which provided a respite for the parents and an opportunity for the young to learn the family history, values, etc. Now, it sometimes seems, everyone is adrift with no anchors.
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natashas1 year, 8 months ago
jordan11 I commend you for speaking out for all children. I want to add this bit of information. I knew a child that was three also diagnosed with hyperactivity as well as bipolar. He showed violent behaviors very often. His parants thought he would grow out of it and one day he broke his little sisters arm. He was then medicated and he has been good since. This child in my opinion could not function without normally without medication. Like you I am not saying all children fit this profile. I agree and think parants should not give so much control to others.
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jordan111 year, 8 months ago
He was then medicated and he has been good since. This child in my opinion could not function without normally without medication. Like you I am not saying all children fit this profile. I agree and think parants should not give so much control to others.>>>>
It's true, one size doesn't fit all.
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Bkumm1 year, 8 months ago
Well, this is the liberal dilemma isn't it? I have this serious problem with raising my own son. I don't want to show him that violence in an acceptable solution to any problem, but on the other hand I realize that children need discipline rather than drugs (in most cases).
I love my son more than my own life, but I would die if he acted like most of the kids I see out in the world.
The other day I saw a kid in the grocery store acting a fool. Momma, like most good moms, gave him a little swat on the butt and he calmed right down. Some well meaning citizen stopped her and told her that if she ever saw something like that again she'd call child services on her. Now, it was an empty threat, but it highlighted the situation to me. I told the lady that stepped in to mind her own damn business, it was obvious that the swat was out of love not out of frustration or anger. I've never had somebody so angry at me.
Tough call.
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lalady2161 year, 8 months ago
While in the checkout line at a store, I was behind a grandmother and her about 4-yr-old granddaughter (the child's mother and brother had already walked out); the little girl was full of energy and was climbing on the counter (had feet on bottom rim). The grandmother jerked the child off the counter rim, and hit her 6-8 times very hard on her backside. The child started crying. The grandmother told her to shut up. The child continued crying. As they left the checkout counter, the grandmother jerked the child around and slapped her very hard on the side of the face/head. I was astonished. I felt I should have called and reported the overly zealoug lady. She must adhere to the "Spare the rod; spoil the child" advice of the Bible.
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PinkyPie1 year, 8 months ago
I've been on all sides of that same situation, BK.
As the young mom with the misbehaving kids...yep, they'd get a swat if it was called for...and I did leave an entire cart of groceries in the aisle and take my children home if they couldn't behave in the store. BTW, I told the manager & they held my cart until I could come back & retrieve it. That happened exactly ONE time.
When I see a stressed mom at the store I try to help by distracting the child. Usually that's all it takes...a stranger talking to them makes them look at mom in a new light. I'll ask things like 'do you watch Sesame Street' and what would Grover say if he saw you acting like this with your mom....age appropriate obviously, lol!
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jordan111 year, 8 months ago
Tough call.>>>>>
The pendulum moved too far when society started addressing child abuse issues. I thought it would move to the center, but after three decades, no such luck. I gave my kids a few swats, & have seen mom's do the same in this day and age. Wouldn't occur to me to admonish them for it. I sometimes wonder if some of those who are 'over the top' about not spanking kids, weren't abused and have disproportionate reactions to it.
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BhaktaRajPrabhu1 year, 8 months ago
I was as mischievious as any kid, maybe I even wrote the freaken book on mischief! My parents had a good cure for most of that when it got out of control: they took away privileges, in other words I was grounded! Rarely did my folks hit me, although I remember the times that they did. You never forget being struck by another person, but the lessons I learned from being grounded stayed with me more than the actual grounding. On the other hand, looking back on the times my folks lost their tempers with me and hit me, I can honestly say that they could have handled the situation in another way because I didn't remember any lesson here: I just remember having been hit!
As for these kids being medicated for every little thing, read Aldous Huxley's "Brave New World", and rent the old sci-fi movie "THX-1138". Both ring in a note of truth about today's society and where we're headed if we don't wake up.
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Changingconstant1 year, 8 months ago
Totally agree on the movie! That's actually been on mind alot the last few years!
Please remember alot of what we've said here applies to adults just as well as the children.
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JenMurdock1 year, 8 months ago
Have a typical hyperactive kid? Drug them! Greeeeeeat! Never mind any potential side effects or developmental problems these drugs may create. Yeah, say no to weed, say yes to Ritalin!
If you read the book, "Talking back to Prozac", it'll explain that the FDA is financed through the drug companies. Their drug approval's are pretty suspect.
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JenMurdock1 year, 8 months ago
Have a typical hyperactive kid? Drug them! Greeeeeeat! Never mind any potential side effects or developmental problems these drugs may create. Yeah, say no to weed, say yes to Ritalin!
If you read the book, "Talking back to Prozac", it'll explain that the FDA is financed through the drug companies. Their drug approval's are pretty suspect.
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evelyna1 year, 8 months ago
Observe anyone on stimulants for a period of time. There mind will be speeding but their body works slow. This has about the same effect on anyone I know who has been taking the drug without a rest period(crash).
I do not know of anyone who produced anything benefical while on drugs.
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jordan111 year, 8 months ago
Mother's little helper was valium. Ritalin and all speed-speed everyone up for a while. Eventually it slows them down. Ritalin in the 60s?>>>>
Yes, Ritalin was used for hyperactivity in the 60's. It calms a hyperactive child, while having the opposite affect on those not 'hyperactive.' Valium was for mom, not the kids.
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EmperorJeffrey11 year, 8 months ago
"in the future governments will control their people with drugs." (possible paraphrase)
-Aldous Huxley
I used to work at a psych ward for adults. some people recieved meds they needed, some just because that was the usual for the symptoms displayed...if the patient was cogent enough to decide they didn't want the meds because of the side affects they would be strapped to a bed by their wrists and ankles and forcibly injected...this is the mindset of modern medicine.
When I worked in nursing homes there were elderly people who had medicine lists as long as my arm becuase one doctor would leave and another would come and change the meds without removing the old ones...sometimes the meds would be contraindicated (bad when put together). there was no one to speak for these old people so it continued unabated as long as medicare continued to pay.
that is the truth of modern medicine
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